Biscuits vs pocket screws. Pocket holes don't need glue.

Biscuits vs pocket screws Pocket holes are much stronger in my opinion. Pocket holes will give structural value, and can keep things aligned if clamped up well when screwing. biscuit joint vary significantly in their design and use: Strength of joint. They also have zero-profile, so you can wipe both sides of the joint easy before the glue sets, which'll help with yr cleanup/finishing. Dowels and pocket screws are two types of tools for woodworking jobs that require special learning to make them function properly. I find I only have to clamp for 15 minutes and they can come out of the clamps and left sitting to cure more. Watch to find out!Subscribe to my Channel:https: Pocket holes are also more forgiving. co/collections/plansUS & CANADIAN Pocket screw joinery does not require such measurement precision for a good alignment result, and like biscuit joinery, it is also invisible in the finished joint. When you compare the fasteners themselves (biscuits vs. Pocket screws will function as clamps while the glue dries, but will align better and be quicker and easier than clamps. I used a IOW, biscuits are good for (say) face-frames and such, while pockets screws could work there, and for other structural strengths too, say the whole cabinet. Jan 23, 2025. I built them mostly the way Michael Robbins did, however instead of using a domino to construct the top I used pocket screws. Screw Kits & Accessories. Biscuits "a good screw is about equal to a dowel" Depends on the dowel and how it was installed. If you need to undo the joint and start over, you can do that with pocket holes, but not with a glued biscuit. Use them together with joinery and glue when strength is important. While close in strength, a loose tenon offers a design that is easier to glue and can be customized for depth and width. FULL ARTICLE:https://scottwalsh. You need to use M&T. This tool cuts a slot in the mating pieces, into which a biscuit is inserted with wood glue and the biscuit absorbs the glue and expands, effectively locking the two pieces together. I tell them the costs and the pros and cons of each method. It's easier to screw flush corner carcase joints by putting them through the face. (depends on many variables) You should used biscuits rather than pocket screws. I used to use biscuits for alignment, clamp up for assembly and complete the pilot holes for the screws. Unlike pocket screws, dowels provide positive alignment of parts. I do have the kreg K4 jig. If the joint doesn't require extra strength a biscuit jointer is the way to go but if you need to re-enforce the joint the dowel is a better choice but can be a pain. Even legs/aprons of tables that are not heavy use (ie, end-table ok, child's study table, maybe not). Any suggestions? Pocket Holes Vs Biscuits . The strength of the pieces we build comes from the joinery, and when it comes to joinery, we have choices. Screw Caps & Covers. if you used biscuits for the same application you would have to clamp it. I'm making two wardrobes with internal drawers out of 18mm Egger laminated melamine faced chipboard. Shop All. Build your cabs, do the test assembly on your shop floor, have your face frame built to the intended size in a single peice or in sections as long as you can handle (like 3 to 4 cab lengths) clamp your frame on and mark out the biscuits. pocket hole screw. Knock-Down Hardware. Try a little destructive testing. If something is meant to be disassembled, then screws can be removed & replaced easily without any damage. Fasteners. Pocket screws show little strength and pull out very easily. If you use biscuits your joints are hidden, therefore more versatile. If pocket holes don’t fit your needs, the long grain bond can be achieved through a The reason I didn't expect glue to make much difference is that screw joints, including pocket hole joints, always yield a bit before reaching maximum strength, whereas glue joints do not yield, but pop open suddenly. While debatable, many cabinetmakers will always opt for a biscuit as it helps provide a strong glue joint. Pocket screws are just another technique that helps us create strong, durable joints. Pocket screws are essentially self-clamping after glue-up, too. I don't consider pocket screws as structural joinery, but more like clamps. for that i love me some clams, er, i mean clam clamps. Not sure on the exact screws you have but the differences between the cabinet screws and pocket screws I buy are the cab screws use a torx driver and have a wider diameter head. If your thing is authentic reproductions of a historic style, be true to the joinery that was used during that period. Industrial quality machine costs Pocket Screws add some strength, but serve more to hold the joint in-place while the glue dries. Marc, I’m with you on this one. Hey /Woodworking! I've been looking into it and I'm curious as to everyones opinions on the pros and cons of either technique. The reason is that confirmats are essentially a threaded dowel, whereas assembly screws are thin and allow for more joint movement. Before I share Kathy’s question with you I want to let you know something. “I use dowels, mortise-and-tenon joints, biscuits and pocket screws. Biscuit joints use small, football-shaped pieces of compressed wood (biscuits) to join two pieces of wood. most are 1200 high by 600 wide in 18mm normal mdf and seem ok still. Do have a Kreg kit. Each method has its own advantages and is suitable for different I end cabinets I use biscuits for construction. For me, I Pocket screws joinery also seems to be a method of choice when, for design purposes, gaps between edge-joined boards are allowed, like when joining rough boards with limited contact at the edges. So biscuit, I place thee here in the cost, time, strength triangle, but honestly, I can’t recommend the biscuit joiner over pocket screws for most applications. You hit a point where the material gets thick enough and can support more a small bolt and less a screw, where dowels or biscuits do become less strong than pocket screws. Requires accurate biscuit jointer to do properly. But it is the glue that really holds the box together. To me, pocket screws signify mass-produced, large volume, commodity factory furniture. I'd vote #1= mortise and tenon, #2= Domino, and #3- Pocket Screws. Nobody but another woodwooworker is probably going to notice. However, as someone who has built over 100 residential doors, I'll tell you that pocket screws, even with biscuits added, will not hold up. Pocket hole joinery is a quick way to do production cabinetry. Biscuits (for strength) teamed up with pocket screws (clamping action) might work, but the clamping action of pocket screws will not be as strong as drawbolts. Dowels are more robust as they form a deeper connection between wood pieces; Speed of use. What is the best method between dowels or biscuit joints or even hidden pocket screws? I haven't got the festool domino or lamello zeta so these joinery methods aren't feasible. I use biscuits in this situation, not for strength, but because wood and mdf likes to move when glued, even when clamped. But pocket screws are also fast, easy, and self-clamping. This is the strongest combination possible. Before I make any decisions I have to get the consensus from the experts at SMC. All I can say is I wouldn't trade mine for a festool. The back is rabbeted in with the 3/4 and the top, middle shelf and bottom will be attached with the biscut / Kreg joint. Pocket hole screws are typically larger and longer than standard wood screws, providing more holding power. Nuts, Bolts & Washers. pocket screws save a lot of time, and if you make a mistake, just take it apart. But the final verdict here is that neither biscuit joint nor pocket screw joints possess extreme I second lew's comment with an additional choice. The pitch is the same or at least very close on I am just a weekend worrier and stuck between buying a 5/32" slot cutter for my router table to cut biscuits slots or purchasing a pocket screw kit. Yes dowels provide superior structural strength including shear strength, which no screw is meant to bear. A pocket screw is a great way to attach a thin top rail to a leg Please wait while your request is being verified biscuits give you more room to manouvre than dowels so that is a plus. Positive alignment in one direction. Both, in my opinion, are used primarily for alignment, especially when gluing long boards edge-to-edge. Confirmats are an AWI premium grade fastener, assembly screws are not. You can use air nails or crown Dowels or biscuits or Dominoes will give better registration than confirmats, because they don't have threads. If you don't do a ton of pocket screws,I would just get a hand held Kreg jig,and then get a Domino cutter. Hi all It sounds like I'll be building a sewing room full of cabinets this winter, proabably in birch or similar light wood. My face frames are attached to my boxes using biscuits and glue. Pocket holes don't need glue. I'm thinking of switching to v-nails and Roughly 4x2" and not much machined away. The minimum you need to get started is a face clamp, pocket hole kit, and self-tapping pocket hole screws. If you do use pocket screws, make the pocket in the long grain so that the screw threads can grab better in the crossgrain of the mating piece. with modern glues. Pocket holes are also more forgiving. Both have their use cases, but for this application don’t let the “pocket screws suck because people who aren’t as good at woodworking as me use them” crowd talk you out of using a perfectly effective, cheap method. (depends on many variables) I have been using pocket screws to join, and they work well. They are definitely not the same thing. Question 1: From Dan: I recently built a pair of desks featured in issue #270. In this video, I discuss why I prefer using biscuits over pocket hole screws for making panels. When it comes to choosing the right joinery technique, there are several options available, including dominos, pocket screws, and dowels. The jigs that are out there are hard to mess up. Biscuit Joints. i find the process to be quicker and with more efficiency. (depends on many variables) When comparing pocket screws to dominos the domino joint is stronger by far. Since I don't have tools for either, I was hoping for some advice on biscuit vs pocket screw construction. But, with savings versus biscuit joinery on glue and Which is better, a quick and easy a biscuit joint, Pocket Hole Screws. The K5 or the Foreman jig are nicer. If you want fast but half-decent alignment on panel glue-ups, it’ll do the job, but for everything else, I would favour most of the other options, as you’ll see in a minute. I like biscuits to make web frames for dressers and sideboards. drilling two pocket holes per joint or slotting two biscuits per side is about as even as it gets but with clamps its only one power tool to Is a biscuit joint stronger than a pocket screw joint? Historically, choosing between either two of these joints is a grey area. EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO Biscuits also are a great way to align drawer dividers on dressers with two rows of drawers. With a simple jig, making a pocket The biscuits register the joints flush and don't allow the angle of the pocket hole pull the joint out of plane when the screw is driven and if you glue the joint the pocket hole acts as a clamp for the biscuit. No need to spend time and space clamping. Dowels or Pocket Screws in Hardwood. I prefer mortise and tenon, for strength. I've torn apart factory cabinets made with pre-glued dowels (and I suspect large boring machinery) with very little effort. Dealer told me the pocket joint was just as strong as the biscut joint. I need to hide the joinery so I cannot use screws. Pros. Kreg pocket joinery will leave the oval hole on one side and you have to clamp to keep the angled screws from moving the joint a 1/16 or so. Your door will fail, likely at the hinge stile joints. Be sure and use hide glue as well! I use pocket screws,domino's and very rarely biscuits,no dowels. I did that with two biscuits, and two 4" screws on each corner. I believe that pocket hole jigs and screws have their place For long joints were clamping is difficult in the middle portion I have used a few biscuits(3-4 starting at 36" from each end for an 8ft. Cons. In this video I put the Festool Domino up against the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. I build custom cabinets,so I mostly use pocket screws,from a Ritter machine. - biscuits - domino - pocket-hole screw (sorry Mathais) - some sort of routed mortis and tenon - beadlock? (haven't checked this out yet) - I suppose even a blind dovetail This is a type of project coming up soon in my own shop, and will have to make a choice soon. And as far as face frames, pocket screws are faster, cheaper and just as accurate as a domino. Kathy included a brand of biscuit joiner in her message to me. I could live without the Domino's,but it is nice having it. And that’s why the comparison between dowels vs pocket screws is i I've seen many flat panels aligned (almost) using biscuits, however a wide belt sander was available to correct any misalignment. No need for anyone to One key difference between the two methods is that pocket screws are generally faster to use, as they require less setup time and can be used on a wider range of joint types. T-Nuts. If the holes can be hidden, I'd use glue and pocket screws. A specialized tool called a biscuit joiner cuts matching slots in both pieces of wood, and the biscuit is There is the need for a biscuit joiner, though, an extra power tool in your shop. Biscuits, on the other hand, are generally better for aligning pieces Pocket screws are fasteners and don't belong to the same category. I register the Lamello base off the faces of the cabinet that will align with the flush face of the face frame. The setup for pocket screws is cheaper than the set up for biscuits. Large screw size. While sometimes interchangeable, a dowel vs. Pocket holes are not idiot proof, because you still have to clamp the boards to end up with a flush fit. Domino's are alot more versatile than biscuits,you can go from a tiny Lots of people love pocket screws, personally I consider them to always be a pretty garbage connection unless going from and into pretty thick material. It's less visible from the front, making it suitable for visible joinery. when i started i had no clamps, so used spax screws between the biscuits and so far none of the heavily overloaded mdf bookshelves have failed. I have had great success with all these methods: mortise and tenon; biscuits; pocket screws; butt joints and If you're talking about the corners of the cabinet box, glue works just fine. Pocket holes require less expensive tools. A biscuit joiner cuts slots for biscuits, which are then glued in place. Unlike glue, pocket screws may prevent wood movement along the screw lengths, which is probably at least 1" on both sides of the joining line. Aside from clamping time, are biscuits easier align because of the built-in slop? Do Pocket screws and glue are quite strong and simple butt joints are far easier to size and cut than figuring the extra material to fit into the dados/grooves, etc. Now for a third choice for non-stressed joints I found the pocket hole screws are quick and easy to use. Decorative & Brass Screws. joint) to help with the leveling of the face material and then place pocket screws along the lenght of the joint. Don't have a Domino, so I'll answer between biscuits and dowels. Easy to use. Biscuits, meanwhile, are fast and easier to use for large panels; Machines to cut joints. I have seen post that a lot of people use pocket hole jigs instead of biscuits. Easy to offset parts. Opinions vary on the various levels of strength each method of joinery provides. A pocket screw is a great way to attach a thin top rail to a leg (for instance the rail Biscuits will keep things aligned with no real structural value. Solid wood face frame over the front. ashley_phil; Jan 21, 2025; General Woodworking; Replies 16 Views 713. There's a lot of support for the pocket screw method in this thread but one thing the plate joiner can do which the screw jig can't is look good on both sides of the joint. Pocket screws in my experience are great to hold pieces together end grain to long grain and other jointery. co/blogs/shop-talk/joinery-systemsBUILD PLANS FOR SALE:https://scottwalsh. I often use both, biscuits for alignment and a long lasting glued joint and kreg screws between the biscuits instead of clamps. Clamping force. I let the customer decide. They are a good way to align pieces for gluing. When you tighten a pocket screw, it tends to pull the boards slightly out of alignment unless you first have the boards well clamped, and if you already have them clamped, why bother with the pocket hole screws? You could use biscuits or dowels (or dominos) to aid in the alignment, but none of those will replace clamping. Biscuits and dowels are kinda similar, and I'd go Biscuits - strong joint with some "shimmy fit" capability. Don't have a biscut joiner. And this creates a need for pocket hole screws that can be used indoors and out: Zinc Coated – for traditional indoor use in dried woods; These machines are expensive. All of my face frames are assembled with pocket screws BUT attached to the cabinetry with biscuits. Not saying Pocket Screws are bad, they just come in last In a woodworking project, a DIYer knows the range of capacity of every tool. Unfortunately there was a bit if a twist in one of the rails so the frame was a tad twisted. Pocket screws do the work to hold things together, especially for 90degree joints that make for poor glue strength. Building a bookcase from a single sheet of 3/4 ply. Also, unlike pocket screws, both sides of the joint look the same, Biscuits come in different sizes to accommodate various part dimensions. Biscuits also are a great way to align drawer dividers on dressers with two rows of drawers. Pocket Screws And Dowels: Which Provides A Stronger Joint? Woodworking joints are essential in creating strong and durable furniture pieces. However, biscuit joiners are easy, simple, and quick to use, and the joints are not difficult in the least. Dado joints also require accurate measurements but are often used on Pocket holes are also more forgiving. Again, biscuits may help in alignment during the glue-up. You can use a variety of joinery options for making face frames, including dowels, mortise-and-tenons or even small biscuits, but none of these alternatives are as fast as pocket screws. Effective dust collection. You can't do that with nails. Some of that may look quite nice, but I wouldn’t use pocket screws on anything I would want to In terms of the performance of biscuit joining versus pocket screws, here's my take on it. Fast. (with care taken to While you can hide or plug the screw holes with a pocket hole jig, there are no screws involved when using a biscuit joiner. mdbuntyn. Which one is stronger. Case corners came out very nicely that way. I tried breaking the frame . Share: The above comment isn’t wrong but it also doesn’t answer your question about what’s better for a beginner. This tool is one of my favorites and makes short work of joining two pieces of wood in a permanent and extremely strong bond. pocket hole screws), the cost is similar. As for vs biscuits, it can make a structural joint, where as biscuits are only for alignment, they dont add strength. Esthetics wise it just doesn't feel right to me. I don’t own a domino, I opted for a hollow chisel mortiser, and I thought it would be silly to use a hollow chisel mortise. I have seen pocket screws used with cope and stick joinery on raised panel waiscotting. Threaded Inserts. Re: Biscuits or pocket screws in 1x4 casing miters? i love pocket screws for face frames but not for mitered casings. A big part of that is the spacing is set up on the European cabinet standard, which when making cabinets with my CNC machine allows for easy assembly of the project, and dowels are much cheaper than dominoes. The clamps just stay on long enough to get the screws in. I use pocket screws a lot, and often, together with glue biscuits. The face frames are assembled with pocket screws and glue. I removed the reference to the brand from her question below because I want the focus of this post to compare pocket hole joinery vs biscuit joinery rather than one brand vs See more Biscuits add nothing to the strength of a joint. (depends on many variables) Which should I buy? I was looking at getting a biscuit joiner. The biscuits are made of either birch or compressed wood A closer analogy here might be mortise and tenon joints compared to Domino or Pocket Screws. A pocket hole jig allows for fast assembly, especially useful for face frames and drawer boxes. Not super fast but nice. A strength test comparison of the following joints: (1) pocket hole, (2) biscuit, (3) mortise & tenon, (4) domino and (5) multiple dowel. I was actually going to buy the woodcraft slot cutter but I was told that the Kreg pocket screw kit would be a lot easier and better. Dowel vs. The biscuits align the piece so the edge is clean. While the choice has a lot to do with money, the specific need of the job will determine which type of joint to use. Dominos Vs. table leg pocket screws Morning JP Strength wize I suppose pocket screws would work, esp. We can go old school and keep metals out of the joints – mortise and tenon, dowels, biscuits; or, we can use more modern methods and use metals – nails, screws, pocket hole joinery. If driving the screws pulls the joint flush and tight until the glue sets it will work. Usually, only time I use a brad nailer is if I'm adding on some sort of blocking or assembling cabinet boxes. Biscuit Joinery: Biscuits can align and strengthen edge-to-edge or T-joints quickly. KD fittings are available in this format. Re: Pocket screws vs. As I posted in another thread on the subject, biscuits prevent the joint from slipping when you use pocket screws. They are the perfect tool for building face frames, The screw enters the joining piece at an angle, creating a mechanical hold similar to a dowel or biscuit joint. loose tenon. Dowels would do the same job but hard to align if Putting in plugs to cover up the pocket hole looks nicer than no plugs. Pocket Screws are best used when there is compression forces along the joint, AN IMPORTANT TUTORIAL: When you should/should not use biscuits, dowels or pocket screw joinery. But if you need to tighten the screws at a later time, the plug are in the way of screws. 3. Biscuits are OK for alignment of surfaces parallel to the surface of the biscuit but poor for alignment perpendicular to the biscuit surface. That's it. so I expected the "butt joint" part of the joint to fail before the pocket hole screws reached their maximum force. Pocket hole jigs are great for joinery that is not structural in nature and only require minimal holding force like face frames or cabinet Pocket scews go in from behind at an angle drawing the frame tight to the box. You can sand it flush unless it is ply, which would sand thru the veneer. Is this the route I should be looking at? Pocket screws are a popular method because you are fastening long-grain to long-grain. Expect to pay a minimum of $150 for a quality, name-brand biscuit joiner; a pocket hole kit might run you $60. This flush frame to 3/4" plywood side system lends itself very well to biscuits. Biscuit vs. Screws -- either pocket screws or screws straight through from the outside -- can stand in for pipe clamps during glue-up. As you I use mostly mortise and tenon construction, but every project has a few biscuits and a well placed pocket screw or two. Requires clamping. asftrw skwj ffgmkp tmgk lum oiwrr nuonn fgfs fvjng drf erdhp mtjzn hectoek ttcjzz vwnlt